Curse

StormDragonZ · Oct 02, 2009, 07:13 AM // 07:13

When the next skill update comes around, all of those skills will get buffed for PvP... just you wait. I'm calling it now.

Yoom Omer · Oct 02, 2009, 07:19 AM // 07:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lex

Do you think, that (for example) author of this page: http://pvx.wikia.com/wiki/Build:N/E_HA_Lingering_Curse build, Frosty, can sue The Necromaxime and demand the reward for his work on pvxwiki? That would be funny and priceless!

Frosty, go go go!

HA! Well, we could disqualify half the builds in there for that...
I'm pretty sure Anet just randomly picked builds. /roll 30,000, and the number that we get wins. norly.

Lex · Oct 02, 2009, 07:34 AM // 07:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yoom Omer

HA! Well, we could disqualify half the builds in there for that...

Well, yes, but isn't this build (and other builds) breaking the rule of this contest I quoted?

This rule about originality was on contest page, and still is in google's cache. I bet that build submitter did not found this build himself = did break the rule "build cannot be taken from any other source".

Robster Lobster · Oct 02, 2009, 07:39 AM // 07:39

I think one of the bigger mistakes that has already been pointed out is that they picked bars with certain skills that are almost essential (good) but that Henchmen cannot run well. There was a lot of room for them to make a solid hench bar with for example "Charge!", that people would take because "Charge!" is a solid skill that is almost always useful, and doesn't require much skill to use. The same can be said for skills like Tainted Flesh and Putrid Explosion, people would run a henchman just for those 2 skills, it allows for easy pressure and frees up slots on other bars as corpse control is covered by the AI. There are some good examples of these in the selections, for example Foul Feast, Profane (if the Hero can preserve the energy to actually use it, or switch to a high energy set), the Inc Arrows ranger and the other AoE focused bars.

When you have Henchmen with skills like Grasping Earth, Ward Against Foes, Infuse Health, Make Haste, Song of Concentration, Deep Enchantment removal etc you're not allowing players more options or easy characters to slot into any build, as they will need to bring these skills anyway on different bars as well. Unless there are going to be some severe changes to NPC AI, there is no way that a Hench is going to "Make Haste!" your relic runner, Grasping and Foes to slow down the relic runner on the other team, use Song of Concentration to help your Ghostly cap (or even to help you get off hard resses), Deaths Charge before a spike to hide your target, push into the other teams base to snare their flagger with Crippling Shot or do any of the necessary things that these skills are brought for.

The only way I can make sense of this is if the bars are meant to essentially never be used, which is fair enough, playing against NPC's in PvP is not particularly fun for a lot of people. However, if that's the case I'm pretty disappointed that I bothered to put any thought into this, or was even interested to see what people came up with when the results were released, and judging by the responses in this thread I'm not the only one.

Yoom Omer · Oct 02, 2009, 07:42 AM // 07:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lex

Well, yes, but isn't this build (and other builds) breaking the rule of this contest I quoted?

This rule about originality was on contest page, and still is in google's cache. I bet that build submitter did not found this build himself = did break the rule "build cannot be taken from any other source".

Of course, I agreed with you. I added, and said that half the winning build can be disqualified for their winning this way.
Hrrr.

Winterclaw · Oct 02, 2009, 07:43 AM // 07:43

Congrats to the people who won.

ANet needed to pick non-meta bars or at least pick something that a henchie can run. Unless anet plans on redoing the henchies everytime the meta changes one skill update will kill a number of the henchmen. Others are DoA as it is. I ain't taking a stupid HB infuser. AI needs something easier like WoH. Also that PR GvG makes me want to rage a little.

Another thing that bothers me is I thought one of the anet devs said they were trying to avoid unoriginal bars. Looks like they failed on that account.

I know it isn't happening but I'd really like to see some of the builds that weren't selected. I'd like to think there are some good finds in there.

lustnlood · Oct 02, 2009, 07:55 AM // 07:55

ok not to be a bitch or anything but i honestly remember ANET saying they wanted to see innovative builds and all that shyte... so why the hell do they pick the generic bull.

so i got me thinking... the developers team is ether gonna update the AI for the heroes or else they are gonna look like complete fools in the community's eyes and that all this was a sham and that they broke their own regulations...

or else you did not expect so many submissions so you just picked the builds that you know would usually last longer in the meta... which means you just fcked us over.

i cant say congrats to the winner cos if i say that im saying im retarded for not logging on with the paragon who was running the old school cruel spear build at that moment and not submit it straight off.... instead i made a DA build which could be useful since it is absolutely and utterly brainless... like YOU ANET.... COMPLETELY USELESS AND FCKNG BRAINLESS

zwei2stein · Oct 02, 2009, 07:56 AM // 07:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Racthoh

I was kinda under the impression they wanted us to submit something creative that the AI could handle ...

Yeah, and I tailored submitted builds to that.

I feel that this contest was kind of pre-decided and more of excuse to basically just give met builds to henchies.

I would laugh if this was PvE build contest and whe got three necro henches with discord. Or maybe weep. Or both.

GZ to winners anyway *they did smart thing.

Bob Slydell · Oct 02, 2009, 08:00 AM // 08:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by lustnlood

ok not to be a bitch or anything but i honestly remember ANET saying they wanted to see innovative builds and all that shyte... so why the hell do they pick the generic bull.

so i got me thinking... the developers team is ether gonna update the AI for the heroes or else they are gonna look like complete fools in the community's eyes and that all this was a sham and that they broke their own regulations...

or else you did not expect so many submissions so you just picked the builds that you know would usually last longer in the meta... which means you just fcked us over.

i cant say congrats to the winner cos if i say that im saying im retarded for not logging on with the paragon who was running the old school cruel spear build at that moment and not submit it straight off.... instead i made a DA build which could be useful since it is absolutely and utterly brainless... like YOU ANET.... COMPLETELY USELESS AND FCKNG BRAINLESS

I'm glad they are PvP side Henchmen and they didn't do this for PvE. But they probably will eventually do it for PvE which will cause me to shit my self, lose all my wit and walk away from the game.

turbo234 · Oct 02, 2009, 08:05 AM // 08:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by snaek

so they went through over 30,000 skill bars when they could have went straight to pvxwiki.com and end up with the same results within minutes?

my thoughts exactly. i actually submitted creative, usable builds but i guess i would have been better off giving them what everyone is already running.

on a side note, i heard giving henchies frenzy/PR was a bad idea.

Vulturion · Oct 02, 2009, 08:20 AM // 08:20

Firstly; congrats to the winners - a comps a comp, and even the folks who literally just copied & pasted from PvX "bought a lottery ticket" so-to-speak.

Secondly; I cannot believe I wasted time, thought & effort on entering this, when deviating from PvX just = disqualification anyway.
If they were always intending just going to pick these builds they could have just skipped the build pretense altogether and allowed us to simply enter a character name - disqualify the inappropriate ones then pick winners out of a hat.
Would have saved a lot of time and prevented a lot of ill-will + given us all equal chance.

Thirdly; there's nothing wrong with removing NPCs from PvP if that is their design - it's their game after all and four years in I cannot see the remaining PvP core complaining anyways - but I don't see the point in implementing a wave of aggressively-bad NPCs as a roundabout way of achieving this goal.
It has to be immediately apparent that slapping 4-5 basic skills on a bar would have achieved more NPC functionality than most of those selections.

~ Edit: Yeah - I'm worried about the PvE Hench update too now.

I had assumed it would be aimed at making them better suited to HM and fixing the logic gaps in their current designs (specifically the Prophecies builds) - now I'm thinking it may be an exercise in gutting them on the premise that social gaming should be top of the agenda through-out the whole game.

Haldibarn · Oct 02, 2009, 08:33 AM // 08:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zodiac Meteor

Haldibarn Earendul is good. I'll take the henchie with me.

Thanks

And yeah, frenzy/PR is not a good choice for henchies, neither two stances on a ranger I think.

zwei2stein · Oct 02, 2009, 08:46 AM // 08:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Winterclaw

I know it isn't happening but I'd really like to see some of the builds that weren't selected. I'd like to think there are some good finds in there.

What I posted for HA:

Warrior/D Axe with Rending Touch
Mesmer/E with Glyph Of Immolation and basic domination/inspiration stuff.
P/Mo with Empathic Removal and physical support.

I would not consider it "awesome" or "creative" or "deserving to win" builds, but hey, I had fun playing em and fun tweaking em

Minami · Oct 02, 2009, 09:02 AM // 09:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vulturion

*snip*
I cannot believe I wasted time, thought & effort on entering this, when deviating from PvX just = disqualification anyway. *snip*

This.
I spent a few days testing and finalizing my submitted skillbars. What a waste of time considering I could've just grabbed PvXwiki team builds in 2 seconds.

EDIT: I submitted a modified Tainter Necro skillbar and a somewhat unusual Blood Magic skillbar.

ousbique · Oct 02, 2009, 09:08 AM // 09:08

Commander facepalm to the rescue !

I seriously hope they don't delay the pvp """""love"""" update for fix all the IA for thoses builds. Wasting precious live team time because they picks meta template.

Felix Infelicium · Oct 02, 2009, 09:12 AM // 09:12

The only thing I say about this is that for low end gvgers (if there are any) can use a henchman monk which is essentially a meta monk. But then we could have done that from the start, so why bother with this henchman contest?

Essentially this just removed all Tainters, RoJ Monks, Tease Mesmers from PvP.

dusanyu · Oct 02, 2009, 09:28 AM // 09:28

Well let's Look at the Bright Side Heroway is Dead And from the looks of these bars henchway never stood a chance.

Penny · Oct 02, 2009, 09:29 AM // 09:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martin Kerstein

Ok, let me clarify a couple of things here:

- We will manually pick the winning skill bars.
- We do want robust, general purpose builds, not some niche meta builds or builds that will not be immediately made obsolete by meta shifts.
- Common gimmick builds are not very likely to be picked
The point of this contest is not to find a 1:1 replacement for Heroes, but to offer henchmen with useful skillbars (read: useful but not making use of the AI advantages that certain Hero builds had) for players, who want to compete but are not able to field 8 human players.

They are not meant to replace human players.

iLOLD.

saw that here

Razon · Oct 02, 2009, 09:32 AM // 09:32

Lol and most of those builds are wiki ones.. GG anet, originality FTW! And no one uses stupid henchies lol (well maybe for interrupts). And they wasted two weeks for this? hahahaa

And before I forget, gz to the winners.

Chocobo1 · Oct 02, 2009, 09:51 AM // 09:51

Quote:

read: useful but not making use of the AI advantages that certain Hero builds had

Dont worry, the Assassin build is completely the opposite. Have fun with a non functioning hero.